I General Meeting

I, Acting Grand Master Jordan Brizendine, do hereby begin this First General Meeting of the Order of Knights of the Cross on this day, March 25, 2011, on the Order’s official online forum. May God be with us all.

Welcome, Ladies and Gentlemen, to the First General Meeting! Here we will discuss all of the details of the official foundation of our Order. Our agenda is as follows:

1. Draft and complete the Charter of the Order
2. Finalize the ranking system and vote to decide the rankings of individual members
3. Hear nominations and hold elections for the High Officials and Grand Chapter
4. Lay out rules of conduct and protocol
5. Decide on set requirements for membership
6. Discuss Brotherhood organization

Please note that this is a running agenda and any member may request that a point be added.

The first point of discussion is the Charter, which will be the founding document of the Order. Here we’ll lay out the basic rules and regulations to which all members must adhere. If there is an individual here who wishes to begin a draft of such a document, please do not hesitate to do so.

Secondly, we must discuss the ranking system of the Order. This will determine chain of command and the experience of members. I have designed such a system, but if anyone has any objections, please let me know and they can be remedied. Here is my compilation (highest to lowest):
Knight/Dame Commander
Commander
Grand Officer
Officer
Knight/Dame

Once we decide on the ranks, we must nominate those of our number to receive such ranks. We will then vote on the matter to seal our decision.

As for the third point, we shall hear nominations for the five High Officials and the Grand Chapter. With our current membership, I believe that all of us will earn a position (Grand Master, Grand Commander, Grand Chancellor, Grand Hospitaller, Seneschal, and 3 Grand Chapter Members).

The fourth point deals with rules of conduct and protocol, which will be incorporated into the Charter. These include how all members are expected to act and how various functions of Order business will be carried out (elections, inductions, etc.).

Requirements for membership encompass the fifth point. We must decide on the minimum age limit for inductees, what is and isn’t permitted as far as denominational orientation, and so forth.

And finally, the sixth and final point is the question of Brotherhood organization. My original idea was to allow Order members of the same Christian denomination to organize into a sort of “support group” in order to connect with other members who have similar beliefs. This should also ensure that one denomination does not become too powerful and use the Order for its own ends.

As I stated before, all of these points are entirely open-ended. Feel free to say whatever you like about each of them, and perhaps propose more if you feel it necessary. And now, I turn the floor over to you, the members.

-Grand Master Brizendine

Sir Grand Master, I submit the following draft for the preamble to the Charter:

"PREAMBLE:

The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with us all. Amen.

We Christians, adherents of the Holy Bible, which is the Word of God, desiring to ever promote the same, do deem ourselves knights in His service; preaching Christ, the Son of God, crucified and risen again for propitiation for the sins of the world. Thus clinging to His Cross, and thus endeavoring to spread His Word in the most effectual means possible, we knights seek to establish order amongst ourselves. We therefore assemble ourselves to establish this Order of the Knights of the Cross.

To God be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen."

I approve of this preamble 100% and hereby ask to be Knight Commander of the Knight's Army. I apologize for skipping ahead but spreading the might of God and Christ cannot wait to start after squabbling over an earthly charter. God has already given His people the go-ahead to spread His and His Son's words.

I appreciate your efforts and approve this Preamble, Sir Son III. I also wish to nominate you for the position of Grand Chancellor, and therefore head of the Grand Chapter and leader of political activities in the Order. I believe you are well suited for the job, and you expressed interest in it. I give you my full support and confidence

Sir Ultima, I would like to nominate you for Grand Commander, and thereby leader of all religious and military ceremonies and procedures. I think you show aptitude in this respect, and certainly plenty of enthusiasm.

As far as rankings go, I would like to nominate you both for the Commander rank, as you have undoubtedly exhibited the most devotion and spirit out of any of our members thus far.

All of these nominations require a second, and will be voted on later.

Thank you, Sir Grand Master; I look forward to the future votes on our membership positions.

Sir Grand Master, I submit the following article for debate:

"Article I

Section I

a.
Members of the Order of Knights of the Cross, henceforth to be known as "knights", shall be admitted to the Order either by invitation by an existing knight, or by request. Such prospect's membership will be put to a vote, "yea" (pro) or "nay" (con), and be accepted by a simple majority of the votes cast by the Grand Chapter, at which point the prospective knight's membership is to be recognized by the Grand Chancellor and Seneschal.

b.
Should either or both Grand Chancellor and Seneschal object, for whatever reason, to the admission of the prospective knight, the question shall be put to the Grand Master, who will decide the matter, whether to accept or reject such membership based on the arguments for and against.

Section II
No person shall be admitted who shall not have reached sixteen years of age, nor shall a person be admitted who does not profess the Holy Bible to be true in its entirety, and Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of the only true God, being the Savior, not only of himself, but of anyone who thus professes this belief, believing the same in his heart."

I disagree with Section II as I and the Grand Master are both under 16 years of age.

Excellent

Sir Ultima, I am 16, but I agree with your suggestion.

I have a few revision suggestions (changes in red):

"Article I

Section I

The Organization shall be known as the Order of Knights of the Cross


Article II

Section I

a.
Members of the Order of Knights of the Cross, henceforth to be known as "knights" or "dames", shall be admitted to the Order either by invitation by an existing knight or dame, or by request. Such prospect's membership will be put to a vote, "yea" (pro) or "nay" (con), and be accepted by a simple majority of the votes cast by the Grand Chapter, at which point the prospective knight's membership is to be recognized by the Grand Chancellor and Seneschal.

b.
Should either or both Grand Chancellor and Seneschal object, for whatever reason, to the admission of the prospective knight, the question shall be put to the Grand Master, who will decide the matter, whether to accept or reject such membership based on the arguments for and against.

c.
The decision of the Grand Master to accept or reject a member may be overruled by a three-fourths vote in the Grand Chapter.

Section II
No person shall be admitted who shall not have reached fifteen years of age, nor shall a person be admitted who does not profess the Holy Bible to be true in its entirety, and Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of the only true God, being the Savior, not only of himself, but of anyone who thus professes this belief, believing the same in his heart."

I approve of the changes.

As do I.

Legally, I think the FCC internet rules say 13, so we're fine with 15.

I gathered the current text of the Charter as follows:

PREAMBLE:
The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with us all. Amen.
We Christians, adherents of the Holy Bible, which is the Word of God, and desiring to ever promote the same, do deem ourselves in his service; preaching Christ, the Son of God, crucified and risen again for propitiation of the sins of the world. Thus clinging to His Cross, and thus endeavouring to spread His Word in the most effectual means possible, we knights seek to establish order and assemble ourselves to establish this Order of the Knights of the Cross.
To God be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.”

Article I

Section I
The Organization shall be known as the Order of Knights of the Cross.

Article II

Section I

a.
Members of the Order of Knights of the Cross, henceforth to be known as “knights” or “dames”, shall be admitted to the order either by invitation by an existing knight or dame, or by request. Such prospect’s membership will be put to a vote, “yea” (pro) or “nay” (con), and be accepted by a simple majority of the votes cast by the Grand Chapter, at which point the prospective knight’s membership is to be recognized by the Grand Chancellor and Seneschal.

b.
Should either or both Grand Chancellor and Seneschal object, for whatever reason, to the admission of the prospective knight, the question shall be put to the Grand Master, who will decide the matter, whether to accept or reject such membership based on the arguments for and against.

c.
The decision of the Grand Master to accept or reject a member may be overruled by a three-fourths vote in the Grand Chapter.

Section II
No person shall be admitted who shall not have reach fifteen years of age, nor shall a person be admitted who does not profess the Holy Bible to be true in its entirety, and Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of the only true God, being the Saviour, not only of himself, but of anyone who thus professes this belief, believing the same in his heart.

I propose the following amendments (in red) to the Charter as currently written:

Article 1—May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with us Christians as we, adherents of the Sacred Word of God as given in the Most Holy Bible and desiring to ever promote the same, do deem ourselves knights in His service; preaching Christ, the Son of God, crucified and risen again for propitiation for the sins of the world. Thus clinging to His Cross, and thus endeavouring to spread His Word by the most effectual means possible, we knights seek to establish order amongst ourselves. Therefore we, servants of the Most Holy Trinity, assemble ourselves to establish this Order of Knights of the Cross, that in all things God may be glorified. Amen."

II. STYLE OF THE ORDER

Article 2—The style of this Organization shall be “(The) Order of Knights of the Cross”.

III. MEANS OF AQUIRING MEMBERSHIP

Article 3—Members of the Order of Knights of the Cross, henceforth designated as “knights” or “dames”, shall be admitted to the order either by invitation by an existing knight or dame, or by self-petition. Such prospect’s membership shall be put to a vote of “yeas” (pro) and “nays” (con), and be accepted by a simple majority of the votes cast by the Grand Chapter, at which time the prospective knight’s membership is to be recognized by the Grand Chancellor and Seneschal.

Article 4—Should the Grand Chancellor, Seneschal or both object, for whatever reason, to the admission of the prospective knight, the question shall be put to the Grand Master, who shall decide the matter, whether to accept or reject such membership based on the arguments for and against.

Article 5—The decision of the Grand Master to accept or reject a member may be overruled by a three-fourths vote in the Grand Chapter.

Article 6—No person shall be admitted who shall not have attained fifteen years of age, nor shall a person be admitted who rejects the Holy Bible as true in its entirety, and Jesus Christ to be the only begotten Son of the only true God, being the Saviour, not only of himself, but of anyone who thus professes this belief, believing the same in his heart.

Article 7—§1. For the purposes of membership, the phrase “the Holy Bible as true in its entirety” of Article 6 shall be construed to exclude the literal interpretation of the first 11 chapters of the Book of Genesis.

§2. No one shall be discriminated against solely for a failure to accept or reject such literal interpretation as one’s own Church instructs.

With my new numbering system, it will be easier to make inline amendments/additions in the future (ie: "Article 4b" or "Article 4gg-2").

I absolutely and unequivocally reject the amendment for the following reasons:

1. I reject the replacement of "Charter" for "Constitution", as the change is trivial, and a "charter" is actually exactly what this document is.

2. Titling or otherwise heading multiple articles is completely unnecessary.

3. "Endeavour" is the British spelling of the word "endeavor", whereas this organization is based entirely outside of Britain.

4. The numbering system is confusing, and the change is unneeded.

5. Article 7 of this proposed amendment states that the first eleven chapters of the Bible aren't necessarily to be considered true in a literal sense.

Son III wrote:

5. Article 7 of this proposed amendment states that the first eleven chapters of the Bible aren't necessarily to be considered true in a literal sense.

Some churches, my own included, do not have a firm teaching on the matter. I'm not criticizing you or your beliefs, I just thought that, since there is debate on the matter, we should be ecumenical.

If "endeavor" is the Americanized spelling, why does NASA have a shuttle named "Endeavour"?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/constitution

For constitution, dictionary.com says:
8. the system of fundamental principles according to which a nation, state, corporation, or the like, is governed.
9. the document embodying these principles.

Charter is the same type of thing, so they're synonyms. I'm not "wrong." Plenty of groups have constitutions, their fundamental law or organization.

Giving multiple parts verbal titles makes for ease of reference. "II. Means of Aquiring Memebership" is better than something like "Article I, Section II" with no subtitle.

I understand your arguments, but here is why I disagree:

1. The purpose of this Order, if I may assume, is to set ourselves apart from lethargic, lukewarm, and ineffective Christian organizations. As you said, and I agree, this isn't about criticism, it is about where we stand, and I intend to have the Order maintain the truth of the Bible. If this is not the intention of the majority of the knights to so maintain it, so be it.

2. A very quick read of Wikipedia (third paragraph) will explain the British spelling of NASA's Space Shuttle Endeavour. (Named after a British ship; this actually led to confusion and infamous misspellings by the American crew.)

3. Like I said, the change is trivial, and "charter", I feel, is a word which appeals more to the majority of our members. Let the vote decide, I suppose.

4. I simply feel adding titles and redoing the numbering system is unnecessary, tedious, and cumbersome. Again, let the vote decide.

OK. What do you think to the other amendments, like "yay" to "yays" or "will" to "shall"?

By the way: If you do strike down my entire text, that's fine, but I'd like to propose that we eliminate "Section I" from Article I, as there is no "Section II."

I am against those things I mentioned, the rest I abstain.

I'll post about the Charter issue later, but for now I would like to nominate Sir Faciēs for the position of Seneschal. I believe he is worthy of this position. Any comments?

I am honoured that you would consider me for this position, but I must ask, what exactly does the Seneschal do? It says on the "organization" page that he is in charge of "financial affairs & ownership", but that seems rather vague. The Charter currently states that the Seneschal has to approve new members. Other than that, I'm not sure. Thanks!

As of yet the exact duties of the Seneschal (except those already discussed involving new membership) are not clear... which is part of the reason for this thread in the first place. Since you have brought this to attention I think it is prudent that we should discuss the duties of all officials. Here is my suggestion:

Grand Master - Represents the Order and upholds the Charter in internal and external capacities. Holds final authority on questions of membership, legality, and all other aspects of the Order's Administration (though he may be overruled by the Grand Chapter). Acts as the Order's "President".

Grand Chancellor - Represents the Order in matters of state and presides over the Grand Chapter. In charge of public affairs and the Order's press. Direct political deputy of the Grand Master. Acts as the Order's "Prime Minister" and/or "Press Secretary".

Grand Commander - Charged with the defense of members and assets of the Order in both military and legal capacities. Because of the Order's relatively peaceful nature, this position is mostly ceremonial. Direct military deputy of the Grand Master. Acts as the Order's "Chief of Police", "Chief of Staff", and/or "Attorney General".

Grand Hospitaller - Organizes and oversees all Order-initiated charities, volunteer work, and humanitarian service. Charged with defense of the human rights of members of the Order and those under the Order's protection. Direct human rights deputy of the Grand Master. Acts as the Order's "Secretary of Health and Human Services".

Sensechal - Keeps track of all Order funds, collateral, territorial holdings, and economics. Has say in new membership. Charged with managing the Order's money and encouraging successful marketing. Acts as the Order's "Treasurer".

Grand Chapter - Discusses and decides on all major operational questions of the Order. Charged with modifying the Charter (if necessary) and keeping the Grand Master and Lower Officials from gaining too much power. Acts as the Order's "Congress".

A thread for the nomination of Order Officials has been created here, while topics for the discussion of Order Ranks and Responsibilities, as well as Merits and Display Protocol, are located here and here respectively. Please feel free to offer input.

I propose the following to be added to the Charter:

Article III
When a proposition has passed the required vote, the Grand Chancellor shall draw up an official document of such proposition, to be displayed in his forum office.

The Grand Master had said he would draw up something, but usually the Chancellor of a given government (especially in medieval times) drew up the document, as he was the record keeper.

I agree that we need that job to be done, and I don't disagree that the Grand Chancellor could do that, but looking at this sticky from Sir Grand Master Brizendine, I don't think that is the area in which the Grand Chancellor is supposed to work. Now, as I said, we need that job done, and I don't have a problem with the Grand Chancellor doing it, but I just think we could have a topic within the Grand Chapter forum that would display only current legislation.

As this is an area of legislation, I think the legislative body should appoint someone to fulfill the office of clerk, whose job would be to record, file, and categorize passed legislation.

Would you agree?

OK, that's reasonable. What if we created a new position called "Chancellor"? The Grand Chancellor would stay the same, and the Chancellor would be the Grand Chapter's clerk. His office would be called the "Chancery".

Well, I don't know... I mean, that might be a little confusing. Chancellor can really mean anything at all, depending on the context. I know in Catholicism, a chancellor is a record keeper, while in the Methodist Church, it is a legal representative. Germany, on the other hand, uses the word for their head of government.

At this point, I would push for clerk, but I will not stand in the way of chancellor; I think chancellor describes the position well, but clerk would lessen the possibility of confusion.

As for me, whatever the vote ends up being, I'll be fine with. We could always change it by amendment, I suppose.

In any event, I second the proposition, and abstain my own amendment to the proposition.